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The Discussion Post, For Potentially Interested Parties
Some of you occasionally asked us questions that we fudged because we didn't want to give away plot pointsor we didn't want to give away too much about the weirder points of our writing process. Some of you may also wonder about stuff but never asked.
If you were curious about, well, basically anything -- parts of the plot, about the writing process, why there was a bloody cat in the story, whether Junno ever became an accountant and basically the SDWverse past and present -- here's your chance. There are no stupid questions, and we won't take offense if your question is critical. You are officially invited to ask us anything, and we'll do our best to answer!
And one of the things we really liked about posting the chapters was when people read and responded to each other's comments, so if youalways wanted to ask ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
___clash about Kame's shaken baby syndrome want to discuss whether there was too little Jin POV or too little Kame POV want to talk to each other in a thread without us authors butting in, that's more than cool too!
And just because we can and because some people asked, we're running our OC poll again, this time with Ticky Boxes to avoid crises of conscience. *g* Now with a few more characters, after the last few chapters.
[Poll #1834655]
brezo1816 made a banner for Same Deep Water, too. Look here! :D
Note: Comments -- if there are any -- will obviously contain spoilers, as well as possibly too much information about how the sausage was made.
The Discussion Post, For Potentially Interested Parties
Some of you occasionally asked us questions that we fudged because we didn't want to give away plot points
If you were curious about, well, basically anything -- parts of the plot, about the writing process, why there was a bloody cat in the story, whether Junno ever became an accountant and basically the SDWverse past and present -- here's your chance. There are no stupid questions, and we won't take offense if your question is critical. You are officially invited to ask us anything, and we'll do our best to answer!
And one of the things we really liked about posting the chapters was when people read and responded to each other's comments, so if you
___clash about Kame's shaken baby syndromeAnd just because we can and because some people asked, we're running our OC poll again, this time with Ticky Boxes to avoid crises of conscience. *g* Now with a few more characters, after the last few chapters.
[Poll #1834655]
brezo1816 made a banner for Same Deep Water, too. Look here! :DNote: Comments -- if there are any -- will obviously contain spoilers, as well as possibly too much information about how the sausage was made.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2012-04-20 08:44 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-04-20 08:47 am (UTC)also, Jo's fault. Like, for real.No but really I'll be back >.>(no subject)
Date: 2012-04-21 08:59 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-04-22 06:29 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-04-25 07:18 pm (UTC)He came across Jin one night on his way home from the club, at the dim street corner where Jin was offering -- trying to offer -- his services. Ootomo isn't really prone to taking street whores up on their offers, since he's got access to people who are actually clean and skilled and certified as disease-free, but Jin, while looking a bit worse for wear, had cheekbones and a mouth Ootomo couldn't quite look away from, and even the embarrassment in the negotiation was a bit intriguing -- Ootomo has an eye for these things and he actually thought Jin looked like catnip for toppy guys, and as such a nice addition to the club.
And Jin only wanted three thousand yen for a blow job, so fucking couldn't be that much more expensive. From his own whores, Ootomo usually only gets blow jobs, so that's a bit of a perk to test drive them before he hires them, and Jin actually put up some resistance at the thought of going to a hotel but he was clearly tempted by the money, so Ootomo made it just a bit more money and Jin agreed.
Jin found it very creepy, actually, and he didn't usually go to hotels with guys at all except in the winter, but the offer Ootomo was making him was just too good, and hotel meant shower and he hadn't had one in a while, so he was basically taking a calculated risk. It helped that Ootomo is short and kind of weedy.
So they went to a hotel where Ootomo knows the staff and got a room, and he sent Jin to shower. That Jin was shy and embarrassed by it all wasn't such a problem, because people can be taught differently once they're in a classy environment. Jin was very pretty once he was out of the grotty clothes, and Ootomo got him to suck him for a bit to see if Jin was halfway competent and because Jin's mouth was so intriguing, and then it was time for fucking.
He offered Jin extra money if they could do it without a condom, because it's always good to know if whores will go there for an extra tip -- he can't have that in the club. And Jin clearly didn't like having to say no to extra money with all the squirming he was doing, but he stood his ground for long enough, and Ootomo 'relented' and then he fucked Jin, and afterwards told Jin to wait and help himself to something from the minibar and went to have a shower, and after he gave Jin his card and said, 'I run a club for people like you, and it pays about ten times as much as I'm paying you now. There might be a place for you. Come by tomorrow after four if you're interested.'
And Jin couldn't decide if this was too good to be true or Really Fucking Creepy and he'd end up in parts, but it sounded too good to not at least check it out, and he stalked the club from about 1 the next day, until he could be reasonably sure that it really *was* a club that pretty men went in and there was a restaurant next door and everything, so... he went to the interview.
Does that cover it, or did you want to know anything more specific? :-)
(no subject)
Date: 2012-04-25 07:35 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-04-30 07:17 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-04-25 06:40 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-04-20 02:43 pm (UTC)Letting the cat in on the poll and leaving out the hamster is serious discrimination. Really.
But yay, the ticky boxes made this decision so much easier! :D
(no subject)
Date: 2012-04-25 07:19 pm (UTC)Yay for ticky boxes!
(no subject)
Date: 2012-04-24 01:56 pm (UTC)And in chapter 24, was Kame crying when Jin confronted him about Souji? What do you think was running through Jin's head when he offered to let Kame piss on him?
(no subject)
Date: 2012-04-25 07:18 pm (UTC)Now, Chapter 24. Yes, Kame was crying. It just... started. He didn't even really know. And Jin was kind of shocked, because that was the last thing he'd expected. He'd known he had something he could use against this guy but not... like that. And he had some experience of his own of how it felt when the guy you loved let you down, and for him it had been bad but at least he could tell himself that Naoki had just been desperate or an idiot, Naoki hadn't actually set out to destroy him. So he knew he'd hit a button there, a really bad button, and in a worse way than he'd meant to.
And at the same time, Kame was really no longer a threat, because it all came together and Jin knew what he was dealing with now. He'd gone in with a pretty good idea already but now he realises, wow, he's got even more power than he thought.
So the offer comes out of two things: that feeling of being in control, and the feeling of 'omg how can I fix this because I know what this feeling feels like and nobody should have to feel like that'. He wants to help, and because he feels in control, he isn't really afraid to help. And the idea itself... well, he knows the sort of thing that seemed to make Kame feel good, right? Put Jin in his place, humiliate him, scare him, make him feel bad. Always worked before. (And now it's not like Jin will really be scared, because hey, he's on top of this, he's the one driving this bus while Kame is kind of a helpless mess.) And Kame is feeling worse now than before, so maybe something a bit more extreme... and for Jin, with his back story, when you go to 'extreme humiliation scenario', there's only one thing that springs to mind because that's where his own trauma lies, and that's what happens. He's winging it and trying to think quickly, and this is what comes up.
And then he figured he could handle it because he was after all rationally deciding to do this, but he was a bit of an idiot because you don't just decide to re-enact your worst experience ever and be fine with it. And while it helped Kame, it helped in a completely different way from what Jin thought, so he was really wrong on both counts. But hey... whatever. :-)
Does this cover it?
(no subject)
Date: 2012-04-25 07:37 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-04-26 12:25 pm (UTC)Anyways, on Kame's part, I guess going through that kind of emotional trauma and just stamping it deep down to keep up with his facade kind of blew up when he met Jin. Though at first, he couldn't quite pinpoint what it is about Jin that pissed him off..*no pun intended* :)
And this chapter sort of fascinates me in a messed up way...XD
(no subject)
Date: 2012-05-04 06:12 pm (UTC)Jin asks for those.Good summary, with the facade and the blowing up, that's exactly what we thought happened. He was a ticking little time bomb, and Jin added the ingredient that made it go ka-boom.
Aw, but we like your pun. :p
(no subject)
Date: 2012-04-30 07:23 pm (UTC)Jin wants to do something uselful, wants to help, but forget that he has his owns problems and in the end, some wall are broken between them too, but Kame is even more in a mess and Jin (#foreverM) look like he understand that Kame is not scary at all/
(no subject)
Date: 2012-05-04 02:45 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-05-04 06:13 pm (UTC)Yes, it was. :) You could say it wasn't quite as urgent, since he didn't do anything awful to Kame as a result of Naoki!trauma. But it's also because he... was sort of watching himself fall in love, and he knew that this was stupid in his position, and he went ahead and did it anyway, and he was determined not to be even stupider and share lots of painful confidences when he didn't have to. Jin held back a lot in the early stages simply to protect himself emotionally while he was falling, falling, falling... >_
(no subject)
Date: 2012-05-04 06:12 pm (UTC)Yep. That. Kame isn't really able to solve his own mess, and Jin gets himself into a mess, and it's all very messy, but somehow in the end they don't hate each other any more. All together now: AWWWWWWW! <3
(no subject)
Date: 2012-05-04 07:44 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-04-25 02:31 pm (UTC)As for the universe itself. How did Tomo and Kame's relationship develop?
(no subject)
Date: 2012-05-01 04:36 pm (UTC)Anyway, changes while we were posting based on feedback -- we wouldn't say that overly much got changed based on reader response, no. Two things did happen, though. 1) We sometimes weren't sure if we were clear enough with something, or maybe too clear; we try to be subtle, and sometimes that works well and sometimes that leads to 2000 extra words and we still don't know if people got our ~subtlety~, and there were two or three occasions where the comments made us realise 'oops, this still isn't clear, maybe we should go for the stronger phrasing in the upcoming chapter, not the vaguer one' or let us know 'yup, point made, we can stop waffling about that now.' (And we'd love to give you an example, but this is the thing we cannot remember, sorry.)
2) There were two issues where we weren't quite happy ourselves and where the comments really highlighted that we were right not to be, and that was Matsura and Midori. The Matsura revelation is not the best part of this story and we always knew that; in general we're okay with that because 'who set Kame up' is so much less the point than 'what does Kame do with it', THAT was our plot. But people were more and more intrigued by that, and we realised that this really ought to have at least a little beefing up -- in the very first version of the relevant chapter, the reveal happened entirely off screen and was summarized in one paragraph. We hadn't been very happy with that ourselves, but as people got more and more interested in what had happened there, we thought, no, really, we need to give this a little more space.
The other thing was Midori. She ended up getting more screentime post-scandal than we'd originally planned, and to a large degree, that was about restructuring we did; when we chopped up the chapters to cut slightly differently, suddenly there was ROOM where there hadn't been before, and we could consider giving Midori and Kame more closure. And that was helped by people's response to Midori and that we thought, ok, it might also not be such a great thing for the reader if her confrontation with Kame happens off-screen.
In both cases, it wasn't what happened that got changed -- events were the same -- but the degree of screentime those events got was amped up. (Helped by the restructuring that made it possible.)
But we've never changed a plot detail or someone's characterisation based on what came back, no. We couldn't really have anyway, stuff was too far advanced before we started posting.
We'll need to come back for the Tomo and Kame question -- which is an excellent question!
(no subject)
Date: 2012-05-25 01:30 pm (UTC)Their relationship will get better, much better. Mostly it takes time, and Tomo getting to witness that Kame isn't using Jin and that Jin is happy. And Tomo loves Jin and Jin loves Kame, so there will be an eventual rub-off effect of at least respect.
At some point in the not incredibly distant future, Jin will want to invite Tomo and Yoshi around for dinner too, and Kame has more space, so he invites them to Kame's, and that's going to move them closer to being friends rather than two people sort of tolerating each other.
The money and different status will be an issue for a while; but as time goes on, Tomo will understand better just how much of a risk Kame took to be with Jin/get his life straightened out, and he'll grudgingly respect that.
But we haven't got the timeline of how it all happens sorted, and on this we wouldn't like to commit on anything when we're not totally sure yet. :)
(no subject)
Date: 2012-04-27 05:29 pm (UTC)Also I've always wondered how Jin got sucked into the whore world. I know Naoki was doing it, but I'm pretty sure it's not just a Kame thing to Not Be Okay with your boyfriend sleeping with other guys for money, and I'm sure Jin just wasn't just like, 'oh, my boyfriend's doing it, I should try that too!' And I'm sure they were hard up for money but still... And his family found out too. Threre's gotta be a story in there.
:D
(no subject)
Date: 2012-05-01 05:07 pm (UTC)But Kame didn't want to at that point. He wanted to make it work with Midori, he wanted not to be an ass, he never wanted sex for money. And he wanted to not be gay anymore. So he did approximately a year of straightness. He broke up with Souji shortly after his birthday, and it was actually his next birthday that he had a little crisis -- the straight thing just wasn't happening, and he sat there with this is all I'll ever do for the rest of my LIFE... and out of that, he called Tanaka (not right on his birthday!! just, it grew out of that introspection) and said something like, 'Um, about that place you mentioned...'
Part 2 will be addressed shortly. :-)
(no subject)
Date: 2012-05-04 06:10 pm (UTC)Naoki was doing it for spare money initially, to buy himself nice things. But finances got tight for him. The area they lived was a bit of an economic black hole. When Jin got kicked out and they moved in together, finances got even tighter. Jin did some odd (very odd) jobs, Naoki brought in trick money, but Jin's odd jobs paid very little and any savings there might have been ran out quickly and... well, they're getting a bit desperate. And Naoki was doing all the work and bringing in all the money, and when at some point Naoki started hinting that that wasn't quite fair, Jin really couldn't disagree.
So eventually, Naoki told him there was this guy who'd pay a lot just to get to watch the two of them together. 'A lot' being relative, nowhere near like what Jin would get at the club, but a lot for them. And Jin wouldn't even have to let the guy touch him, he'd just be with Naoki, tune the rest out, and at the end there would be money.
Jin felt he really couldn't say no to that.
As for Naoki -- no, he wasn't technically eager to 'share' Jin, but Jin was so pretty and it would be such an opportunity to breathe easier financially... and he manages to do it too, right?
So that first no-touching-Jin threeway went ahead, and it... well, went, and then at some point Naoki set him up with his first solo blowjob, and after that every now and then that happened again, not as often as Naoki did tricks but a bit more regularly.
And on the face of it, Naoki's not wrong. He's doing it, so it is only fair that Jin chips in a bit. Right? (Except it's Jin, and we kind of hate Naoki, even if Jin doesn't.)
Anyway, then Naoki was gone. And Jin had no money, soon no apartment, and some vague idea of Naoki's hangouts and 'contacts'. And really no idea what else he could do.
He stuck it out for a bit, trying to find jobs, trying to live on even less than before etc, but in the end he just got in touch with some guys, and did what they wanted, and there was money, and it sucked but it had worked and it was something he could do.
So for the next while, he did that.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-05-08 02:33 am (UTC)Ah so Jin's family didn't know he was a whore. I must have misunderstood that. I just remember Jin calling on (I think Taro's) birthday and someone asked something like 'Are you still with that guy?' 'No.' 'Then are you still...' 'Yes.' Maybe they were referring to his being gay or maybe that was just so long ago my memory is just... askew. ^^
I was actually kind of more referring to how Jin must have felt when he found out Naoki was sleeping with other guys. For most people, discovering something like that about your partner, that would kind of change your perspective of them right? But Jin stayed with him, and unfortunately got sucked into it as well. :/ Was it something Naoki had been doing before they even met? Or was it just financial desperation that got him doing that? Did Jin initially know when they first started dating?
At least they managed not to drown and helped each other crawl out of the deep water. ^_^
(no subject)
Date: 2012-05-08 04:42 pm (UTC)Jin... really didn't like Naoki sleeping with other guys. Yes, Naoki had been doing it long before he and Jin met. He did it to be able to get himself nice stuff - leather jacket, motorbike... he didn't really see a huge problem with it (which, really, is fair enough, in our opinion, as long as you don't drag guys who do have a problem with it into it).
Jin only found out, though, after he and Naoki were already together. Naoki was kind of 'hey, it's no big deal, they don't mean anything, it's just for money, and anyway, it's just blow jobs' (and Jin believed him). Jin put up with it because they needed the money - in a way he even felt grateful, and guilty, because Naoki was eventually the one who kept them both going for half a year, he was the main breadwinner with his whoring. But Jin put his foot down in smaller ways: no presents, for one. He didn't want any 'nice stuff' which Naoki got for him by sleeping with other guys.
So it was a tense, not entirely happy kind of balance, Jin trying to be laid back about it because Naoki really didn't think it was a big deal, and also it was their income. And he was in love.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-04-30 07:28 pm (UTC)Maybe it's just not so important for the development of the story, because I doubt Kame can change anything, just him being with Jin heal all his wounds and helps to forget. or maybe such confession will bring too much angst? isn't it difficult for Jin to have a secret like this, ot he just decided to forget about it and live with his present, enjoying his life, because in some pasrt Jin is practical and I noticed, that he could just not to put a lot of attentions at things that are not so important. But is it not important right now? is it still his nightmare? I'm very very curious and I'm very very sorry for being so late for this post <3 <3
(no subject)
Date: 2012-04-30 07:31 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-04-30 07:34 pm (UTC)I think Midori knew about Kame preferences form the begining, or no? I just wonder why she decided to marry him ( I think she loved him) but she knew he is gay, so she think it will go away with time. they have very warm relationships and I just wonder why she decide to marry him
(no subject)
Date: 2012-05-04 06:09 pm (UTC)Nooo, poor Midori didn't know. :( She had a crush on Kame when they were filming together (and Kame really liked her a lot too!). They were close friends. And then there was the scandal, and Kame claimed everywhere that he wasn't gay, not at all!!! He was even trying very hard to convince himself that he was straight. And Midori believed him. She had no reason to think he was lying; and maybe she wanted to believe him; and also, he's a good actor. But why would you expect a guy to lie and ask you to marry him when he's really gay? When you normally know him as a decent guy, you don't expect him to be such an asshole.
It's Kame who thought it would go away with time; he really hoped that, and that's maybe an excuse for him. But Midori never knew it was really there. He told her he was straight and loved her, and she trusted him.
:(
(no subject)
Date: 2012-05-04 07:53 pm (UTC)that really a lot, that even after the story was posted and we know the ending, I still feel so absorbed in this AU. They are just amazing.
I'm too deep in this waters idek LOL >.>
(no subject)
Date: 2012-05-07 06:45 am (UTC)The marriage between Kame and Midori seemed like one big production for Kame. I just realized that Kame was an actor in the true sense of the word. He was always hiding behind a perfect mask. Even when he's having sex with his wife, it feels like he's acting out the role of a perfect husband. He's also wearing that mask even at the club, he's the perfect client, always polite and 'vanilla'. So, I agree with bellemelody, Kame was a selfish coward and a control freak. Hah!
But! We all know that it was clueless and unsophisticated (in the club's whore standard) Jin, who was the one who chipped away at Kame's perfect mask. Yay Jin!
Why can't I let go of this fic!!!! XD
(no subject)
Date: 2012-05-08 04:53 pm (UTC)WHEEEE. :D
'Don't let go,' as they'd say in a KAT-TUN song. ♥
(no subject)
Date: 2012-05-08 04:51 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-05-04 05:56 pm (UTC)We think Ueda is a little bit surprised. He's happy for Kame, but he doesn't quite understand why Jin. He's got nothing against Jin, but Kame always struck him as somebody who liked things pretty orderly, civilized, sophisticated... Jin's not orderly or sophisticated, and Ueda knows that. So sometimes, he probably tries to imagine what those two are like together (not the sex! just, how they are around each other) and comes up with a blank, because it just doesn't compute. That's because he has experienced repressed Kame only, Kame on his best behaviour, and even though Kame relaxed with him and had a really good time with him, he never really let go of the 'well behaved client' mode. Kame probably never got really silly with Ueda. Or hung around like a slob in socks and underwear.
Kimura, on the other hand, is not surprised. He could probably tell that Kame was trying just a bit too hard all the time, and needed somebody different to shake him up. That perfection he was going for with people like Ueda (and pretty much anybody else he ever saw on the side) was fine for a transactional thing, but simply too sterile to be something that could have turned into a relationship. And Kimura himself was good for Kame because Kame could let him take the lead, and Kimura could loosen things up, but Kame wouldn't want to be led forever. Kame had to find someone who could make Kame let go of the polite restraint.
Which *cough* Jin did, first in the bad way and then in the good way. Kimura thankfully doesn't know about the bad way. But he can tell about the good way, and that Kame has found something 'real' here.
Does that answer what you were asking?
(no subject)
Date: 2012-05-04 07:55 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-05-01 05:01 pm (UTC)For one thing, he really doesn't anticipate telling anybody, ever. It's not something he talks about. It's not even something he thinks about, if he can possibly help it. He doesn't know how he would talk about that without, like, dying. He doesn't know why he would talk about it at all. He doesn't want anybody to know. It's bad enough that he knows. And it's not like anybody can do anything.
And Kame... Kame not only cannot do anything, Kame can go and feel guilty again because Jin managed to involve him, which, okay, Kame's own fault, he didn't need to do that, but they have a fucked up background there and Kame will never completely be okay with what he did there, and for Jin to just go 'Oh by the way, did I ever tell you about my traumatic experience which inspired me that one day...' wouldn't be such a wonderful thing.
So... well, it's not something that just comes up in everyday conversation, and Jin has no desire to hash this out, no need to hash it out, and with their background, actually good reason apart from his own shame to keep it quiet. So unless something happens to bring it up or make Kame ask, Kame will never hear about it.
We'll get to the other questions in a short while, we're both a bit swamped just now but they are cool, interesting questions! :)
(no subject)
Date: 2012-05-10 03:03 pm (UTC)But so you know, I loved it and was anticipating every Thursday for an update
and you guys never fail to keep the suspense, and all emotions alive...
So thank you.
If I am not mistaken, there's a part where Jin's "room-mate" was murdered, was there a closure to that part of the story? I don't remember reading it, but then again, i may have missed out. If there wasn't, maybe an elaboration of this part would satisfy my "criminal and criminal investigation" brain :p
Once again, thank you for the great fic.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-05-25 01:53 pm (UTC)Yes, in Jin's backstory, Subaru, who'd let Jin stay with him for a while, was murdered. And we're sorry to say that there's no real closure there. :-/ All Jin knows is that someone killed him because he was carrying a bit of cash from johns that day, and it wasn't one of the johns he was with that day, so probably some other hustler or a druggie. (That latter part is correct, but Jin will never have confirmation on that.)
So, not much to reveal; Subaru ran a bit in drug circles and got unlucky, running into someone who was desperate and high, and nobody - except Jin - missed him much. :-/ Sorry if that isn't the closure you were hoping for. >_> For Jin, it was at least closure to find out how he died, since he didn't even know that much.
But thank you again for the comment, much appreciated!
(no subject)
Date: 2012-05-21 01:36 am (UTC)Throughout 58 chapters, I think Kame cried twice in front of Jin (if my memory doesn't fail me >.<). I would like to ask if there was/is/will be any situations that make Jin cry in front of Kame, or shed tears because of them (things related to their relationship)? In SDW, Jin had his hurtful trauma, but never once did he cry, and I admire his character so much with this.
And I have another question. In chapter 14 (the 'threesome' chapter), what made Kame abruptly change his mind? Maybe I didn't read carefully enough, would you mind telling me some more about that night? I get that Jin agreed because he intended to protect Yuuya. Is it because of Yuuya's reaction when seeing Jin's frozen Kame then said "let's do something else"?
Thank you so much for writing this epic work. This world you've created is so mesmerizing that it's quite hard to move on ;)
(no subject)
Date: 2012-05-25 01:59 pm (UTC)And they are interesting questions!
As for crying... we're pretty sure that there will be situations when Jin cries in front of Kame, yes. We haven't actually planned any; like, we know quite a few things that will happen in their future but we haven't once sat there and said to each other "And then Jin will cry." But we could imagine... okay, two things that are pretty easy. 1) Jin might cry because he's happy, actually. That could happen quite easily in their relationship. Because Kame does something really really nice for him, maybe a surprise or something. 2) For crying because he's sad, there could be things related to his family, which is still an issue and he's not as over that as he would like to be. We're not planning for Kame to make him cry because he's sad, if that's what you were asking about. *g* (Interestingly, we could see Kame being a bit of a stress-crier when they have their first big fight, but not Jin. Jin feels very much on solid ground with regard to Kame, so Kame would have to be a real ass to make Jin cry, and he won't be.)
What made Kame change his mind was, yes, Yuuya's reaction, you got that right.
Kame had a very clear image of himself at the club - and mostly it was justified: he didn't have weird demands, he treated the escorts with respect, he was aware that he was paying for a service but he was reasonable about it and tried to make the whole thing as pleasant as possible for all concerned.
Only Jin screwed that up majorly, mostly through no fault of his own, but the fact that Jin isn't the smoothest of escorts doesn't help, because Kame can blame everything on Jin's ineptness for the longest time. So here, Kame was telling himself that he was in the right, that it was just Jin who was being unreasonable and not really doing his job properly. He was also telling himself that Yuuya was the real professional, understood him much better and was kind of 'on his side'. So realizing that he was losing Yuuya too, that what was going down was putting Yuuya off, made him realize that things had taken a wrong turn and he had to do something.
He still kind of blames Jin for that, but he also knows that he's responsible for not letting it get out of hand and freaking out one escort after the other, so he stopped the situation and at least let Yuuya go.
Thanks for the cool questions and for your comment on the story, we really appreciate it! :D
(no subject)
Date: 2012-05-30 04:51 pm (UTC)It makes things clearer, and all the more fascinating!
(no subject)
Date: 2012-06-01 05:47 pm (UTC)I don't...really have a question? I just wanted to say it's so cool reading your response to questions. It's obvious that writers have so much more knowledge about their characters' back stories, motivations and the little in between the action scenes that they can't really contribute to the story for risk of weighing it down too much to retain reader interest. This kind of post is evidence that you really own and control the whole SDW verse. I both envy you your bigger picture and appreciate not having it at the same time, if that makes sense. :) The mystery is nice, but so are the little further teasing glimpses you're giving with all these questions. Thanks for knowing all this and not trying to dump it all into the story somehow.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-06-04 02:05 pm (UTC)Yes, actually, it makes sense, about not wanting to have the big picture yourself. Or at least, not wanting to have had it (eh. convoluted.) dumped on you while the story was going on. There was no room for it, really, the charas just wouldn't have taken time out to think about all this stuff for the benefit of the reader. Some of it they try not to think about at all, so it would have been really quite weird to put it in. And we felt that the thing was already *cough* quite long enough without adding in even more vaguely interesting scenes which didn't really lead anywhere.
So, uh, thank you for appreciating this and letting us know about it. We like to think that our judgement about what to put in and what to leave out was pretty good (though ultimately, we remain aware that we could have left out even more, if we'd been really strict with ourselves). :D
(no subject)
Date: 2012-08-20 06:19 am (UTC)There is a scene where Jin is waiting for Kame to finish cooking and he looks at a picture of Kame and Midori together. So I was wondering, Jin being Jin and all, did he ever meet her? I kind of imagined him wanting to apologise to her or something.
and thanks for taking the time to answer questions ^^
(no subject)
Date: 2012-08-20 03:25 pm (UTC)We love how you put that. Jin being Jin indeed. :D
It's an interesting question, Jin and Midori! We don't think he wants to apologize to her, exactly. Or rather, logically, he doesn't think he should, that would be... weird. He was a callboy and Kame was married to her and had racked up a history of cheating all on his own.
But he does feel guilty towards her, in a very unconstructive way. He doesn't seek her out, though; he assumes-- correctly -- that he's got no right to intrude on her and maybe upset her more.
When they meet, eventually, it's brought on by circumstances. About four years after the end of the story, Kame's father faints at work, and gets rushed to hospital because OMG HEART ATTACK. It turns out not a heart attack, just something going wrong because of his diabetes, but everyone rushes to the hospital, Kame's mom, and Jin and Kame, and Midori and her new baby.
So that's when Midori and Jin first meet each other; it's mostly awkward, because the wounds have mostly healed, and Jin is terribly nervous and weirdly expects to be hit in the face every second. (He knows this is stupid.) Midori doesn't want to like him, and she doesn't really like him, but she has to concede he's a nice guy, and seems dependable while Kame is having a Kame-freak-out. It hurts a bit to see them together, but not too much, anymore.